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	<title>Comments for The Princeton Tory</title>
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	<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main</link>
	<description>A journal of conservative and moderate thought</description>
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		<title>Comment on Markets with Morals: Why Conservatives Should Embrace Fair Trade and Rethink Capitalism by IFC News Brits should embrace tax-free ISAs – UK Net Guide &#124; .NET WebDev Insider</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/markets-with-morals-why-conservatives-should-embrace-fair-trade-and-rethink-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>IFC News Brits should embrace tax-free ISAs – UK Net Guide &#124; .NET WebDev Insider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=286#comment-169</guid>
		<description>[...] Markets with Morals: Why Conservatives Should Embrace Fair Trade &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Markets with Morals: Why Conservatives Should Embrace Fair Trade &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Fair Trade is Foul. by Matthew Sanyour - Epilogue</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/why-fair-trade-is-foul/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Sanyour - Epilogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=289#comment-168</guid>
		<description>Fair is foul and foul is fair
Hover through the fog and filthy air. 

-Macbeth, 1.1.11-12</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair is foul and foul is fair<br />
Hover through the fog and filthy air. </p>
<p>-Macbeth, 1.1.11-12</p>
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		<title>Comment on Community-based Conservatism  Sketching a Comprehensive New Conservatism for the 21st Century by Molly A</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/community-based-conservatism-sketching-a-comprehensive-new-conservatism-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 22:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=304#comment-167</guid>
		<description>The day that you can give me workman&#039;s comp when I saw my arm off at work and social security in my old age is the day that I&#039;ll agree with your argument about the welfare state.

The welfare state does not replace charitable interactions between humans in society. Last time I checked, Americans were doing loads of socially conscious and charitable acts. The beauty of the welfare state is that it makes us all a part of a &quot;brother&#039;s keeper&quot; society that recognizes that everyone is entitled to some basic standard of living, no matter the cards that are dealt to them in life. The welfare state recognizes that people fail to take care of one another in society because of things like, oh I don&#039;t know, racial prejudice, or prejudice against the poor, or against the indigent.

And like it or not, Brandon, Americans enjoy and expect to receive some level of care from the state, especially in hard times. Think about food stamps in the past two years. As the stigma attached to them has faded due to the pressing need induced by the recession, more and more families have gratefully used SNAP to supplement their family&#039;s earnings. The American people made this possible through their taxes. We are all our brother&#039;s keeper in this respect.

I think you should re-evaluate your distaste for the welfare state, since your quick brushing off in this article is ill-conceived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The day that you can give me workman&#8217;s comp when I saw my arm off at work and social security in my old age is the day that I&#8217;ll agree with your argument about the welfare state.</p>
<p>The welfare state does not replace charitable interactions between humans in society. Last time I checked, Americans were doing loads of socially conscious and charitable acts. The beauty of the welfare state is that it makes us all a part of a &#8220;brother&#8217;s keeper&#8221; society that recognizes that everyone is entitled to some basic standard of living, no matter the cards that are dealt to them in life. The welfare state recognizes that people fail to take care of one another in society because of things like, oh I don&#8217;t know, racial prejudice, or prejudice against the poor, or against the indigent.</p>
<p>And like it or not, Brandon, Americans enjoy and expect to receive some level of care from the state, especially in hard times. Think about food stamps in the past two years. As the stigma attached to them has faded due to the pressing need induced by the recession, more and more families have gratefully used SNAP to supplement their family&#8217;s earnings. The American people made this possible through their taxes. We are all our brother&#8217;s keeper in this respect.</p>
<p>I think you should re-evaluate your distaste for the welfare state, since your quick brushing off in this article is ill-conceived.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflections on Manliness by David Salsa</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/reflections-on-manliness/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>David Salsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=184#comment-162</guid>
		<description>This is genius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is genius.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflections on Manliness by Lucretius</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/reflections-on-manliness/comment-page-1/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucretius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=184#comment-159</guid>
		<description>&quot;Meaty sandwiches and hearty soups&quot; are destroying the environment and ruining the lives of animals and people.  Greens are delicious, and it is instructive that McGinley&#039;s view of masculinity must be expressed through participation in the institutionalized violence of agribusiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Meaty sandwiches and hearty soups&#8221; are destroying the environment and ruining the lives of animals and people.  Greens are delicious, and it is instructive that McGinley&#8217;s view of masculinity must be expressed through participation in the institutionalized violence of agribusiness.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflections on Manliness by The last American man &#171; Equal Writes</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/reflections-on-manliness/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>The last American man &#171; Equal Writes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=184#comment-158</guid>
		<description>[...] back to a simpler time with a simpler set of rules.  This what Brandon McGinley called for in his now-infamous Tory article last December.  McGinley contrasted the manly men of Pittsburgh, who “wolf down meaty [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] back to a simpler time with a simpler set of rules.  This what Brandon McGinley called for in his now-infamous Tory article last December.  McGinley contrasted the manly men of Pittsburgh, who “wolf down meaty [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emergency Contraception: Exposing Princeton’s Institutional Involvement in Reproductive Politics by Princeton and Plan B &#171; Equal Writes</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/emergency-contraception-exposing-princeton%e2%80%99s-institutional-involvement-in-reproductive-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Princeton and Plan B &#171; Equal Writes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=180#comment-99</guid>
		<description>[...] lot of discussion about Princeton and Plan B (a form of emergency contraception) recently, from the Tory&#8217;s lambasting of the Office of Population Research&#8217;s site on EC to an article in the Prince titled, simply, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lot of discussion about Princeton and Plan B (a form of emergency contraception) recently, from the Tory&#8217;s lambasting of the Office of Population Research&#8217;s site on EC to an article in the Prince titled, simply, [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflections on Manliness by Braeden Kepner</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/reflections-on-manliness/comment-page-1/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>Braeden Kepner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=184#comment-82</guid>
		<description>Certainly the conclusion that McGinley arrives at presupposes many things that he has not elucidated in his essay. First, there is the bold, but apparently unsubstantiated claim that it was the stigma against homosexual conduct that laid &quot;the foundation for a healthy, powerful, and beautiful conception of manhood&quot; in the past. This is on its face not the most plausible of arguments. I take the argument as McGinley presents it to be that men in the past were able to have emotionally open friendships because it was assumed tacitly that as a man you were a heterosexual. Since this was the case, there was no need to wonder whether two affectionate male friends were romantically involved. 

The problem now, according to McGinley, seems to be that you can&#039;t have affectionate male friendships without people wondering if the two might be gay. There are two major flaws with this reasoning. First, there&#039;s the &quot;so what&quot; argument, in other words, so what if people think two affectionate males might be gay? The obvious rebuttal to this argument is that there is a stigma against homosexuality, and thus the appearance of being gay is something to be avoided.

The solution that McGinley suggests would be most preferable, and &quot;obvious&quot;, to remedy this, is to have an even stronger stigma against homosexual intercourse. The second objection then, is that this solution is far from obvious, or at the least that there is an opposite, and just as obvious solution: remove the stigma altogether. If the stigma didn&#039;t exist, then we could all say &quot;so what&quot; when two affectionate males were conjectured to be gay. 

I think there are a variety of other problems with the essay&#039;s arguments - it&#039;s not clear from where this supposed vision of masculinity comes from (and it seems likely to me that it may never have existed as imagined). Certain historical claims are also made about how masculinity was in ages past, but it&#039;s not clear when that past was. Certainly at many points in the past the prohibition against homosexual sex was not what McGinley makes it out to be. Aside from the Romans and Greeks, in the beginning of the 20th Century during the campaigns in Haiti, homosexual acts were surprisingly common among American troops stationed there - it was only a stigma to be the receptive partner. 

If you want to trace some thread through most masculinities of the past, I might suggest not fear of homosexuals, but dominance. Certainly what has had to be downplayed with the acceptance of sexual equality has been the maxim that to be a man, you must be in a position of power within your social group. Whatever happens to define power in a particular group has often been associated with masculinity. This idea too is in need of complication, but I think it would provide a much stronger starting-point, and is also visible in the whole Dockers Man-ifesto that seems to have touched the whole discussion off for McGinley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly the conclusion that McGinley arrives at presupposes many things that he has not elucidated in his essay. First, there is the bold, but apparently unsubstantiated claim that it was the stigma against homosexual conduct that laid &#8220;the foundation for a healthy, powerful, and beautiful conception of manhood&#8221; in the past. This is on its face not the most plausible of arguments. I take the argument as McGinley presents it to be that men in the past were able to have emotionally open friendships because it was assumed tacitly that as a man you were a heterosexual. Since this was the case, there was no need to wonder whether two affectionate male friends were romantically involved. </p>
<p>The problem now, according to McGinley, seems to be that you can&#8217;t have affectionate male friendships without people wondering if the two might be gay. There are two major flaws with this reasoning. First, there&#8217;s the &#8220;so what&#8221; argument, in other words, so what if people think two affectionate males might be gay? The obvious rebuttal to this argument is that there is a stigma against homosexuality, and thus the appearance of being gay is something to be avoided.</p>
<p>The solution that McGinley suggests would be most preferable, and &#8220;obvious&#8221;, to remedy this, is to have an even stronger stigma against homosexual intercourse. The second objection then, is that this solution is far from obvious, or at the least that there is an opposite, and just as obvious solution: remove the stigma altogether. If the stigma didn&#8217;t exist, then we could all say &#8220;so what&#8221; when two affectionate males were conjectured to be gay. </p>
<p>I think there are a variety of other problems with the essay&#8217;s arguments &#8211; it&#8217;s not clear from where this supposed vision of masculinity comes from (and it seems likely to me that it may never have existed as imagined). Certain historical claims are also made about how masculinity was in ages past, but it&#8217;s not clear when that past was. Certainly at many points in the past the prohibition against homosexual sex was not what McGinley makes it out to be. Aside from the Romans and Greeks, in the beginning of the 20th Century during the campaigns in Haiti, homosexual acts were surprisingly common among American troops stationed there &#8211; it was only a stigma to be the receptive partner. </p>
<p>If you want to trace some thread through most masculinities of the past, I might suggest not fear of homosexuals, but dominance. Certainly what has had to be downplayed with the acceptance of sexual equality has been the maxim that to be a man, you must be in a position of power within your social group. Whatever happens to define power in a particular group has often been associated with masculinity. This idea too is in need of complication, but I think it would provide a much stronger starting-point, and is also visible in the whole Dockers Man-ifesto that seems to have touched the whole discussion off for McGinley.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflections on Manliness by JL</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/reflections-on-manliness/comment-page-1/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>JL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=184#comment-80</guid>
		<description>point of irony: pittsburgh is the setting of the well-rated showtime program &quot;Queer as Folk&quot;, which centers on the lives of gay men and women living there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>point of irony: pittsburgh is the setting of the well-rated showtime program &#8220;Queer as Folk&#8221;, which centers on the lives of gay men and women living there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay Marriage: In Search of the &#8220;Real Issue&#8221; by Stephanie Jones</title>
		<link>http://theprincetontory.com/main/gay-marriage-in-search-of-the-real-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theprincetontory.com/main/?p=30#comment-77</guid>
		<description>Hi mate, I really like your site. With the abundance of misinformation regarding marriage on the internet, it&#039;s great to see some refreshing content. Keep up the good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi mate, I really like your site. With the abundance of misinformation regarding marriage on the internet, it&#8217;s great to see some refreshing content. Keep up the good work!</p>
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